Jenn's Reverie
Thursday, June 23, 2005
Prenup My Ass
While we were in Vegas waiting to watch the video of my brother's wedding my cousin said something about my brother and his new bride having signed a Prenuptial Agreement. I knew he was lying but, I still went off on a little tangent on my feelings about prenups.
I came across someone elses site/blog type thing and she was talking about prenups. I "stole" what she said because she basically covered the pros and cons. And here they are...
Having a Prenuptial Agreement is basically saying that you have no faith that the relationship is going to last, and you’re planning it’s demise before it even really starts
Or
Agreeing to sign one is a good way to show him/her that you’re really not in it for the money. You agree to sign it as a way of saying "I love you for YOU, not for your money."
Well, I fall into the thoughts and feelings of the first one. Yes, I know that we cannot foresee the future and it could happen. But if you're going to TRY to foresee it, why are you foreseeing the bad that can happen vs. the good?
And if signing one is a way of showing your bride/groom to be that you love them for them then I think there's something missing to begin with. Shouldn't you be getting married because you love them for them in the first place? And because they love you, shouldn't they know that?
I also think prenups are just another form of greed. As if this world doesn't have enough greed to go around. It always somehow has to be about the money and materials.
Hell, if there ever is a divorce in my life, which I do not (as any) intend, I don't want anything. Just so long as I'm not out on the streets. Just like when I left my son's dad. I don't want child support, I don't want shit. I just want him to be a father. I've contemplated the child support, but then I think, "what for?" I don't need his money. I can support my son and myself. And when it comes to my son, I'll work two jobs if I had to.
Anyhow, if and when the day ever comes that I get married, I truly hope that my husband to be doesn't even THINK about a prenup. Because there won't be a wedding. I'll make things easy for him right then and he'll know that he doesn't have to worry about whatever possessions it is that are so important to him.
I don't take the word love lightly. And if you really love someone and want to spend the rest of your life with them, I would think that would supercede any greed.
30 Comments:
Yeah, I agree with you 100%.
The problem is divorces tend to get so dirty these days that people become vindictive and want to 'PUNISH' the other person in any way they can.
I suppose the love of money has also superceded that of true love and this is why we face this current situation.
Im with you on this on though. PRENUPS are for the J-Los an Britney Spears of the world, who have turned marriage into a HOBBY.
well Jenn we know that women these days are 99.9% greedy so it's basically a safe nod for us guys. Women have taken a beautiful thing such as marriage and have destroyed it and made it a game. I mean sheesh, how not nice.
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People shouldn't get a financial reward for divorcing you. But the courts like to hand out a reward for some reason (congratulations Mrs. Johnny Carson, you ain't told nare joke but here are millions of Johnny's dollars). A prenup simply takes away the divorce reward.
I'll have to think about that more, I personally agree with part A more, however, there is the lingering thought that the prenup is a safety net as to if something miserable were to happen.
Hmmm.... good freaking post, makes you question marriage and the sanctity of vows doesn't it?
Bildo, I think it's a two way street, men and women destroy marriages, and
74% of all generalizations are false-let that one sink in for a minute.
Dear raven haired goddess,
99.9999999999% of marriages fail because of money issues, therefore, wouldn't it make sense to diffuse some of those issues right from the start? Also, you know all those funny little news stories you keep hearing about when men kill their wives? I'm willing to bet that the vast majority of those murders are an attempt to keep the wives from taking EVERYTHING the husband has worked for over the years via a heavily biased judicial system. No offense but I think anyone who gets married without a prenup is an unrealistic fool, especially since the odds of divorcing are higher than the odds of staying together. I love you sugar thighs.
Since neither I or my wife had any assets to "protect" when we married 21 years ago, there was no pre-nup.
We had dated for several years and felt as though we knew each other. This is the purpose of courtship - you get to see the other person in different stressful situations and see how they handle it. If it not to your liking, hit the highway then. Or suck it up and live with it. What's that saying? Men get married and think she isn't going to change. Women get married thinking they can change him. Both are wrong.
Unfortunately, Hollywood and celebrity tend to live at a faster pace than us regular folk. Do you think Tom Cruise and Katie Holmes "know" each other after two months? So I agree with Mexi for situations like this. Eliminate the reward.
I would like to think that a promise and a commitment mean something. I think that people jump too quickly sometimes into divorce, even the marriage because they can. Saying that men worked so hard for this money. Well usually there is a wife in the back ground of that. looking after his home and kids giving him the support needed to finnish school or whatever. Making sacrifices for him to succeed, doesn't she deserve something for all her hard work. In the end she has a claim to some of that money. She helped him get it.
"Well usually there is a wife in the back ground of that. looking after his home and kids giving him the support needed to finnish school or whatever. Making sacrifices for him to succeed, doesn't she deserve something for all her hard work. In the end she has a claim to some of that money. She helped him get it."
No she didn't. She just say there and watched soap operas while he was toiling in the salt mines. MOTION DENIED!!!
Hey, IF the wife helped to get some of that money, sure she should get some. But what about the guy who had it all before marriage? Or the guy who ended up chained to a bitch that only cost him cash and mental anguish?
And what about ALIMONY!? I'm all for child support, but Ex-Wife Support! And what the usual reason for alimony payments? She'd gotten used to his support and the life he provided! So why the fuck are you leaving!? Hey, he's probalbly used to getting laid every few days. Maybe there should be Seximony for husbands who have to make Alimony payments.
Hey Arika, you're one of those unrealistic ones I spoke of. Look at the statistics, read the newspapers, coomitments and promises unfortunately mean nothing anymore. Also, I never said that the women is less than an equal, I said the courts are heavily biased towards the wife. Back when the Cleavers inhabited the world, women couldn't make shit, they needed something to fall back on, these days they are capable of making just as good a living as the man. Times have changed, the courts haven't.
Amen sister!
While I don't really agree with ya on the child support issue (we'll save that for another post,) I'm with you one hundred percent on the pre-nups!
I understand that they're available as a means of protection from money grubbing users, but in my opinion, if you're stupid enough to marry someone you don't know, then you deserve to be taken to the cleaners. And, if you think about it, if you have that kind of money, you're obviously not that stupid, so why are you asking for a pre-nup? My guess is because you want to have your cake and eat it to. You want the kind of person that will brainlessly say or do anything you want (as most "gold digger" types will,) but you don't want to have to give anything up when you get tired of that and decide to move on.
Here's a quick thought, how do you suppose it would effect the way we look at marriage and how quickly we leap into marriage if we did away with pre-nups and made all marital assets community property (is that the term I'm looking for?) from the first day of marriage, plus make a common law marriage after -say- a year of living together?
I actually am for prenups. There are a lot less reasons than just money. I'm actually against divorce being an option because it makes marriage disposable.
Not all divorces end smoothly. Both parties may fight over something as useless as the family photos, his favorite shirt, the family car (ok, they weren't so well off.) Those could have been worked out well in advance instead of battling in court (save that for custody.)
Bitterness also happens as a spouse asks for a divorce and moves on to a new romance before you. The pocketbook is a great way to get back. I have two male co-workers on both sides of that coin. One has cut his work hours and claims a lot less income which makes her pay alimony (as well as child support) to him since she wanted to shack up with her own co-worker. The other moved on (recently married) and is paying alimony (she has decided on a career delivering newspapers to support herself and children.)
Prenuptuals are bad for a spouse that gives up plans for a career to stay at home and raise children. They have given up payments to their social security, 401k, education, job seniority and experience. But, that is why discussion of a prenuptual agreement is important to any couple planning to move forward in life and shouldn't be seen as planning for the end.
Pre-nup or Pre-dupe (or De-Nut)?
)+(
I have a good document I have to find to post for you, Jenn. It's a pre ... well, you'll see.
Adrian: You better agree with me. I joke, I joke! I do like how you called it "the love of money." That should have been the title of the post. As for celebrities, yes, I agree. Since it's only a hobby to them, they should invest in a prenup.
Bill: Quit trying to flame the women! Oh yeah, and I can't comment on your last post.
Mexi: Your comment made me think twice. But I still felt like it would be as though there was no faith in the relationship. Maybe I'm just being optimistic. Maybe I'd marry the best thing I thought ever happened to me and one day he decides to sleep with my sister (that I don't have). Given the fact that I've always made more money than the guys I've dated, I might want to take away any possible "divorce reward." But honestly, my optimism takes over and I feel that I would hope I wasn't a dumb girl marrying just any asshole.
Alice: When you come to a conclusion, I'd love to hear it. Since I've read a little about your situation, how you go about it if it were with Mr. Ankle bracelet?
Phelps: It's official that your comment is thee best comment ever! Hands down.
Pikkel: I hear you. But as I said before, my silly optimism with this subject takes over. But what you're saying completely makes sense. And it does make me think twice. Maybe I'll just find me a sugar daddy! :P
Kurt: I was with my ex for seven years. I realized that hoping he'd change only changed me. I didn't try to change him, I just sat around waiting for that magical morning that he'd just change. I know now that I have to love the person I'm with for all of them, even their imperfections, and then I won't want to change them. Oh, and Tom and Katie make me sick.
tj: I don't smell any almonds, drink your tea dear and everything's going to be just fine. That's great!
arika:I understand what you're saying, but that goes both ways. He/she can be at home raising the kids and such, but the other is out there doing what he/she's doing for the family too. I personally would not depend on a man or anyone else, for that matter. I will always make sure that I'm secured, because that person will someday leave. Whether it's by choice, or 'til death do us part. If the person staying at home is sacrificing for one to be the money maker, there can be more sacrifice for they can both make money. If the other won't sacrifice, then maybe they shouldn't be married. I think a part of marriage is to sacrifice for the one you love and "said" you wanted to be with forever. It goes both ways.
Keegan: I love your "Seximony" theory. I totally agree, too. Maybe we should all write to some prick in the White House. I don't like the whole alimony thing either. The child support, yes, but the alimony, no. Again, it goes back to the independence. I wouldn't rely on anyone else to be sure that I'm secure. 99% of that is because and for my son.
Liv: It's not that I don't agree with child support, I'm 100% for it. I just myself didn't want to do it. I started to file, like three times already, but just decide it's not worth it. I really don't need his money. My son and I are fine. We have more than enough. A nice house, a fancy car, food on the table, and then some. We have lots of luxories that most don't. I'm far from rich, but I'm content. So in the end, his money means nothing. He's just a weekend father figure, if that. My son knows and someday my son will thank me for working hard for him and knowing I did it all alone. That makes it all worth it.
Martin: I totally agree with what you're saying. As I mentioned it falls under all the greed. Those kind of people in which you talk about are the greedy bastards who had it in them all along. I know that the bitterness may make you do things at the time that you may not have before. The times I have started to file for child support have been out of bitterness. Like when I hear he spent $850 on an exhaust for his car, or $200 on under-carriage lights for pretty and so on and so on, and hasn't given me but $20 bucks maybe twice in the past 4 years. But, I suck it up and figure someday he'll know and it'll hurt like hell.
Gabriel: De-Nut!
John: I await your document!
JENN: You KNOW I agree with EVRYTHING you say! (Im not suicidal- YET.)
Well written post Jenn! :)
I agree with you completely!
~Eyes
I got married without a prenup, bacause I didn't really have any major assets at the time mainly because I spent all of my $ on partying and chasing pussy. If I would have had assets at the time like a house, a business, big investment portfolio and a smoking bank account you can bet your sweet ass I would have had Mrs. UNLV sign a prenup. I understand the rose colored glasses everybody looks through when they are in love, but i have seen to many of my freinds and relatives get raked over the coals by evil ex-wifes, just because some bitch wanted some $. Remember boys and girls hell hath no furry as a woman scorned. BTW a prenup only protects assets thet were aquired before the marriage and not those that were aquired afterwards. That
Look at you - paragraphs & bold face font - I'm so proud of you!
For the record, Mrs. Zombieslayer and I didn't sign one. I think a prenup is basically saying "I don't trust you."
But don't get me wrong Jen, if you saying yes to me hinges on the prenup,,, I say prenup schmeenup.
Well gd! you get so many comments that by the time I get around to it, there is nothing else to add. I think prenups go against the grain of what a marriage is supposed to be. That's my thought.
One more thing. I will be in Vegas in July. Any advice, tips, places to go, things to check out, thoughts you can share would be appreciated if you don't mind sharing. Please post it on my blog or email me though...I can't weed through your 40 comments. haha.
With ass much crap as you guys are spouting, I seriously wonder why I haven't gone lesbian. I have no doubt in my mind that you would use a woman who may be better off than you in the same fashion that you "claim" they use you.
What ever happened to personal responsibility? You want to fuck around on her, hell yes she's going to be pissed and try to take you for all you're worth! Same goes both ways. Believe it or not, unless there are children involved, the courts tend to side in the man's favor, regardless of the circumstances.
If there are children involved, then be a man -or woman- and take responsibility for the family you created.
To Jenn.........I never seen an asssssssss likeeeeeeee datttttttt. it makes my slinky go DA DOING DOING DOING.
Haha if you're not laughing at my drunk ass singing that you're boo
well well jenn..again you sparked a furor among your faithful readers..way to go!!! on prenups i say who cares..it keeps the lawyers from getting richer..which is the ONLY people that make alot of money from a divorce. I see that Jay is still bitter from god knows what some woman did to him, or he thinks they did..prenups are for people who think ahead and do not have your attitude towards life jenn, they want to protect the all important "stuff" and if you got stuff to protect, male or female by all means protect it..i could of used one when i divorced the previous spouse..he was a dick and I just left rather than fight it out..the "stuff" didnt matter to moi..besides, prenups dont make the marriage fail, they merely protect one if it does..people are what make a marriage fail, and like one of your avid readers said..usually they fail because of money issues..your romanticism is refreshing jenn and i love you for it sweetness..
My Guess is you have an interesting life (hence the topic) ;-)
Having thought about the topic awhile, I've reached a few conclusions.
1. People are living longer than ever and should we assume that with the rapid sociologocal change being thrust upon all areas of civilization that any 2 individuals can &/or should remain compatible for the entirety of their lives.
2. Does being part of a pair bond such as marriage even mean as much as it used to? Historically pair bonds were formed for breeding purposes, hunter gatherer style & have evolved somewhat to reach the state we saw in perhaps the 50's Since then (seeing as how women really needed to join the so called productive ranks of society after the 2 wars) the state of marriage has been evolving faster than the conservative majority would like (gay marriage, high divirce rates et al). & many are finding that marriage isn't required in the historical sense (Jenn herself being a shining example here) & in the modern Pair Bond sense
Ultimately I conclude that the future lies with a severly modified Prenup as the Pair Bond of choice. A short term (here meaning any period shorter than permanent) contractual agreement with many of the shared property features as modern marriage, just setting a series of terms & a used by date.
Seems logical to me.
Nice way of putting it FGL.
I admit, I didn't really think about it when I posted my first comment, I just went on basic gut instinct. And my second comment was directed at those who just seemed to want to dog their former spouses (without taking responsibility for their own actions.)
But the way you put it (even if I don't totally agree with some of your points, I think marriages started changing when they stopped being prearranged...) I could actually go for something like that. Me (being the chick that I am,) I would never expect a man to give up half of what he's accumulated in life after -say- being married to him for a year or so. To me, that's just ridiculous. And I know that any man I would marry knows that, so it's a mute point.
Thing is, I guess, I wouldn't want to take any more than I'd be willing to give up, and I wouldn't want to devote my life to someone who doesn't feel the same. Maybe I'm living in a dream world and maybe I'll never marry again because of it, but hey! I'm OK with that.
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