Jenn's Reverie
Monday, September 19, 2005
Neuro Nerds
This is a re-post 'cause my brother and I were conversating about it the other night when we were originally talking about "The Exorcism of Emily Rose" (which, by the way, I will NEVER see) and somehow ended up talking about these guys. Some of you have read it, my apologies. If you want to see the original commentary on the post, click here. But I would really love some more views and opinions. Bring on the debate.
Working graveyard means sleeping all these inscrutable hours. So sometimes when I'm tired but can't sleep I'll turn on the TV and try to find something lame to watch, which isn't hard. The other morning I put it on HBO and caught "HBO vs. The Faith Healers." It is a behind the scences kind of show targeting Benny Hinn and Reinhold Bonnke, alleged miracle workers. Well, unbeknownst to me it turned out to be very interesting. They gave HBO access to all that they do and were later upset that HBO 'put a twist on it.' For those of you that don't know about, or have never seen Benny Hinn, he's a pastor who supposably has powers from God to create miracles. As for Reinhold Bonnke, he does his preachings and miracle in Africa. Though Bonnke cast spells on witch docters. Previous to this I had caught only a glimpse of Hinn's doings. I never agreed and never disagreed, moreso because I never knew much about it all. Hinn and Bonnke lead people to believe that they are miracle workers, and that their preachings and miracles are a gift from God. Well, in this behind the scenes documentary, there were no miracle to be found. Some of the people who were claimed to have had their miracle even passed away not long after the show. As they got farther into the show, it actually began to get a little scary, if you will. They eventually compared Hinn and Bonnke to Hitler. I was totally dumbfounded. And strange enough, I also agreed after watching the show. They had neurologist and their theory's behind it. What they came up with was "placebo." 1) A substance containing no medication and prescribed or given to reinforce a patient's expectation to get well. 2) An inactive substance or preparation used as a control in an experiment or test to determine the effectiveness of a medicinal drug. 3) Something of no intrinsic remedial value that is used to appease or reassure another. 4) (pl�-chb) Roman Catholic Church. The service or office of vespers for the dead.
What they said was that this is why Hitler was as powerful as he was. That he knew that manipulating a vast crowd was easier than doing so with smaller crowds. The energy is much more intense when in the millions. Which, Hinn preaches to and Bonnke in the half millions. They gave examples of Hitlers "white power" hand in the air to Hinn and Bonnke's waving their hands in the air; His soldier marching the way they did in sequence, at the same pace and beat, to Hinn and Bonnke's crowds swaying. This is all part of the placebo effect. I also learned that the placebo effect can make people feel different. For instance, someone with a bad back that maybe can't squat. When being in the state of placebo, you can then squat. But day's later are unable to.Another thing that was upsetting to me was the money. The amount of money asked for. There was one family, a poor family, whose son had brain tumors and was in a vegetable state. They had converted over to Christianity from Hinduism. Hinn was asked to take their son on stage and perfom his miracles. The little boy died not soon after. But, yet the parents still feel obligated to give Hinn inane amounts of money. On most envelopes to donate to the church, there is amounts on the envelope starting at $5 and up to maybe $100. Hinn's envelopes started in the hundreds and stopped not short of 5 grand! Just one more thing Hinn can do with this placebo effect. Placebo can also be compared to hypnotism.
The neuroscientists also said that most people like this had a strange childhood. And in over-coming this, they then believe that they are some kind of "chosen." They even went all the way into evolution. HBO conducted a few tests on several different people and proved a very good point and everthing to back it. After watching I was just left with an eerie feeling. Are these two men using faith and religion to manipulate? Or are they really strong Christians with faith and believe they are what they are? Something to ponder in my little mind. . . .
posted by Jenn Doll at 4:25 AM
19 Comments:
This is nothing new. There have always been people out there that can command a certain amount of fundage.
It has always rankled my hide how a televagelist can pull in money from the sick and/or elderly on just their word. But these people are not dumb. They know the arguements and can "prove" these arguements.
Faith is a tough subject.
It was good to hear from you when I returned.
ER
I never believe for a minute that an evangelist is sent from god..jesus did not ask for squat when he performed his miracles so why do these fuckers have the balls to do so?? sounds like a good documentary and I will try to see it when I can..
What I still dont get is all these ppl preaching the "good book" but yet they dont seem to be reading the same book I read when I was forced into catholic skool as a child. In their book it denounces faith healers, palm readers and the like, as people that do the devils work.
I am not religous in any sense but I know the smell of bullshit when I see it, but people are so hard up to believe in something they can see and touch they will believe in any guy with the gift of gab and 2 bit slight of hand tricks.
And when you said Benny Hinn, For a second thought of Benny Hill. I almost bust out laughing here at work thinking of Benny Hill healing people. I wonder what he would have used as his "healing wand" ?
I think they know what they are about, and rely on every man's ability to heal ones self if the will is there. Cancer cannot be cured by any stretch of the will, but I believe that disease can be fought with the mind. So once in a while these guys probably really do heal someone, when that someone reaches inside powered with a faith that God is helping them. These people should be ashamed to accept money for it though, because they know better than anyone that they are selling a lemon.
Several Christian scholars have strongly criticized and warned about Benny Hinn for years. He does and says a lot of things that go against the Bible, and when confronted about it he'll say he's sorry and blah blah blah. But then he'll go right back to doing it as if no one ever caught him. He's a huge ego, the sort of guy who would use anything to manipulate crowds, be it the authority of God or the State or the claim that he himself is God, whatever it takes. He is not a Christian as far as I can tell, but he has misled a lot of Christians over the years, mostly young Christians. He's bad news.
I don't know anything about Bonke. I never heard of him.
These guys are quacks. Scott speaks of "the power of the mind" and I think these guys are taken in by their own bullshit and truly believe that they are healing people and doing the Lord's work. WHAT.EVER. Dusty's right -- Jesus performed countless, actual miracles, and never asked for anything -- money, recognition, nothing. He did it because he could and because people needed him to.
These ridiculous televangelists are not "men of God", no matter how much they claim to be. They know nothing of the Bible and twist it to fit their own desires. They prey on the fanatical and uneducated, and worse, they prey on the people who want so desperately for something to hold onto when their world is crumbling, and these assholes seem to be preaching salvation from those woes.
But, you know, there's a SPECIAL PLACE for those guys eventually...
Oh, and p.s., Jenn? YOU ROCK. Seriously.
That just makes me mad now I am glad I aint got no HBO
They use faith and religion to manipulate. As with Hitler, they are around masses of people with the desire to believe in something better than the circumstances they are already subject too.
As did Hitler, they provide a social organization in which people feel relatively secure, and provide them with one set of beliefs to base this on. Really, its all about having good speech writers, and reading them to people that are at a low point in their lives.
Faith can be truely promoted and followed, but as with most things, it can be exploited too!
Opinionated Voice
"Faith healers" are frauds. Preying on the weak & weary, the huddled masses.
This is my opinion, as there is no real way to convince these huddled masses otherwise.
If there is a "Faith healer" out there that refuses donations I may revise my opinion toward that individual "Faith Healer" as someone who truely believes in what they do. Till then, they are just a carnival sideshow dedicated to milking marks for all they can.
In the current climate, its a bit of a growth industry I think.
Haha, in fact they should go public & sell shares in themselves!
Jenn, I cannot believe that you would let people disparage the good Mr. hind on your blog. This is a man that does the work of god. I am sure that no one would argue the miricle of his owning nine Porshes and a gold chalice with "H-Bomb" emblazoned in Rubies across the front. This is a gift from god. As are his gold toothbrush and bedframe.
It's kind of like with voodoo. It only works on you if you believe in it. If someone did a voodoo curse against me, I'll be insulted and pissed off, but not scared. I will never trust that person again because I'd see their intentions against me.
As for Hinn, he gets people who are desperate. Sure a lot of them are poor, but there are rich folks as well with empty hearts that Hinn fills.
I don't believe in that stuff at all. Whether or not Hinn believes it or he's a scam artist, I don't know. Never met the guy.
However, I'll never underestimate the power of positive thinking and of faith. It might not cure cancer, but it will make cancer a lot more pleasant.
Well... I could speak volumes on this (as I already have, lol) but to keep it short, name me one 'preacher' who didn't profit off the needs of his/her followers.
Kind of makes you wonder where their intentions are, doesn't it?
(BTW, I'm glad you came back to this, Jenn! If I hadn't went back to see what I said, I wouldn't have seen what Ray said. :o) Which I like!)
I cant stand these muppets that use religion to foster their sick and twisted fascination with scamming people out of hard earned cash.
I second what RM said.
Jenn, I hate to say it, but religion in general is nothing more than a tool people use to fool and conceive others into things. Let's note all the great things Religion has been used for over the great years:
-Mass Murder
-War
-Fraud as in this case.
-Deception
-Manipulation
-Blame for countless famines, disease outbreaks, etc.
But at the same time Religion does keep many many people in check which serves a purpose. It gives others faith in hard times to pull thru tough situations. So in reality it serves a double edged sword.
Jen, you should check out this site. This guy is my hero and he has devoted his life to exposing this kind of stuff.
Hey this is a really funny web page to read mister hand ;)
My first comment has the link:
http://happygirl123456.blogspot.com/2005/09/who-wants-porn.html
the photo I posted with the one woman caressing the other has her comment to me so I went to her site to just see what she was about. I didn't bother posting anything on her site, but her post at the link listed above was about what deviants we all are. She may be right, but who is she to say so?
I miss you.
As for your re-run, Jesus was a Capricorn. He was a long haired hippy freak who liked to drink & provide free munchies for his friends. So as a historical person, he was alright. As for the good stuff, I think you're all nuts. That's just me. Please don't gang up on me because no one can win this argument.
Bildo makes a good point. If it only served more to help people through trying times. The world renowned Reverend Graham's son came out this week and blamed Katrina on all of society's immoral behavior - I forget if it was specifically linked to the gays (I htink it was). What a load of bunk.
Well, have a great day. I miss you.
i don't know if i'd call these guys hitler - there is a difference between manipulating a population to perform genocide and manipulating a population to rob them blind.
but yes, these guys are manipulators and thieves. if they were doing the real thing, inspired by God, they wouldn't be demanding huge cash payments and they probably wouldn't be televising their miracles. I just can't believe that you can ask God to perform "miracles on demand" for scheduled taping times.
Placebos are required in most scientific experiments. (Ex. One glass of tap water compared to one glass of Coke. Drop a tooth in each and leave overnight.) Medical placebos are also given to hypochondriacs so they can believe they are being treated for something they believe they are suffering from.
The power of the mind is an amazing thing. If I think about having an upset stomach for so long, I will get one even if I didn't have one to begin with. (I used to do that so I wouldn't have to go to school.) Doctors talk about patients dying because they don't have the will to live but isn't that just mind over matter? Sure, I'm not one to believe in spoon-bending but I won't compare Hinn or others to Hitler as he was more than master of mass manipulation.
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