Jenn's Reverie
Tuesday, July 19, 2005
Unbiased
I'm not one to delve into politics. I'm not blind to them and I do know what goes on. It's just not my forte. I leave up to everyone else. One of my reasons being is that I feel it is and always will be a never-ending battle. Liberal's will never see the way of conservative's and conservative's will never see the way of liberal's. I know, never say never. But you catch my drift.
The way I see it is that our belief's are those of how we were raised; Our cultural backgrounds, our parents, our experiences and so on and so forth. I myself have learned through experience to always look at the whole picture and to put myself in the other's shoes. As Vavoom's wise father once said, "...this is just one brush stroke in the masterpiece you'll look back at and call your life." I've always felt that way. Though, I never phrased it so elegantly.
I was raised Catholic and have changed, by choice, to the Christian way's. Recently, I feel that there isn't a religion that I belong to. I'm somewhere between the two. I believe in God and believe that he is my God. That is that. I've had many friends of different race, culture, religion, and from other countries. I do not judge, I learn.
So I'm guessing you're wondering what any of this has to do with politics. Well, I got a comment and I thought I'd give my views and opinion's on it. Something I usually avoid when it comes to politics or war. The comment was on the post I did the morning of the London explosions. A simple post expressing my sadness and sending out my thoughts and prayers to those in London. The comment made was as follows.....
said...
17-J Musayyib (Iraq) 98 Dead.
Please keep them in your thoughts and prayers.
Please keep them in your thoughts and prayers.
Please keep them in your thoughts and prayers.
The Bombs that we drop in Baghdad are explosing in London & Madrid
55 killed in london. 55 killed in iraq every 2 days.
Open you Eyes. Stop western-centrism.
Is that in itself not biased? First of all, it was ONE post done the morning of the disaster. What gives anyone reason to believe that I don't feel for anybody in Iraq when I've not given reason to? What gives anyone any reason to believe that it hasn't been on my doorstep? Why jump to conclusion's and/or assume anything when you don't yet have your facts? Before I think anything of anyone I'm sure to ask them myself what it is I want to know. If they don't answer, well then I'm left not knowing, but I don't think it gives me the right to assume.
I'm not lethargic when it comes to this stuff and I am not understanding of those who are. I just choose to stay out of this battle. Everyone's always arguing their points. I feel that you can't change the belief's of someone unless they themselves experience it. I cannot make someone believe that not all muslim's are bad. Until they have an encounter with one that is not, they will probably always believe so. I cannot stress the fact that when someone is bad it is because THEY are bad. Not because they are muslim, not because they are black or white, not because they are atheiest or Christian, but because THEY are bad. But since assumptions were made I'll clarify my feelings for this undesired war. I'll give you a bit of my political view. No, I won't be throwing around names of those in government and using political phrases. I'll just tell you how I feel. I'll be direct and nothing more. I don't do it much, so enjoy it while it lasts. If you don't feel as I do, feel free to leave your view, but, don't think that for a moment bashing what I think will change how I feel.
I don't believe that this war has any sole purpose. I don't like Bush and his decisions and I also know that it's not just Bush but, those around him. I know that he doesn't just say something and it goes. He is the leader of my country and I think he's done poorly. This was the second time I've voted and no, I did not vote for Bush. My vote went to Kerry. Which, I also wasn't too happy about. I feel that I went with the lesser of the two evils. The Devil or the the Devil's advocate. Had it been my choice I would have put Nader up and see how things went. I don't feel as though I'll be voting again. I hate the electoral college and everything it stands for. I think that EVERYONE'S vote SHOULD count and the electoral college takes that away from us. Mr. Rat said, "It may be true that your or my vote doesn't matter, but it's mentality of an entire population combined thinking like that which will be our destruction." I know that this is a very valid statement, but for right now I'm still stuck on 'what for?' And maybe for the sake of it all, I can change how I feel about this in the future.
I've had three loved one's out fighting this "war" and I have my dear friend's brother out there now. My heart goes out to the soldiers that we have out there. And before you start flipping out, my heart goes out to the innocent Iraqi soldier's and Iraqi civilian's as well. I cannot fathom the feel of the environment there. Everyone in fear of their lives and their loved ones. Everyone wondering who's good and who's bad. Everyone wondering if today will be their day. As I said, I could not fathom the thought.
I know that there are some Iraqi's that are, for lack of better word, happy that Sadaam has fallen and some that aren't. I know that there are some Iraqi's that are happy that "we're" out there and some that aren't. But from what I recall this war is due to the tragic incidents that happend on 9/11. I also recall that it was Bin Ladin. What ever happend to looking for that guy? Who are we to decide what countries should and shoudn't be liberated? My heart breaks, literally, everytime I hear about the way's of Third World countries and I, like many, many other's wish that these countries weren't as they are, but, why make it worse? Why kill and kill over and over? I hope that in the long run this war pays off. I hope that Iraq does become, what we call "liberated." I hope that in the future all of this death pay's off. Death paying off? How logical. I know that it is a long lived dream, but I am entitled to my dreams.
So, Western-centrism? I'll have to give you a negative. I do not feel for those in London more than I do for those in Iraq or vise-versa. A tragedy is a tragedy. A life taken by the hands of another is not something I see better in any way. As I mentioned before, I believe in God and I don't believe that anyone has the right to play God.
I never know how or when to end these types of posts, I am after-all talking about LIFE and politics. Both are never-ending. I have a passion for life and I hope that you all have a passion for life. And if you don't, I hope that you can someday find it. . .
I'm not sure that this post even flowed nicely and I know that I jumped around alot, as per usual. And if you have any questions, feel free to ask. I leave you with these. . .
"The unexamined life is not worth living." - Socrates
"It's a very short trip. While alive, live." - Malcolm Forbes
"There are two ways to live your life - one is as though nothing is a miracle,
the other is as though everything is a miracle." - Albert Einstein
31 Comments:
It flowed incredibly well, and was very articulate. The most I have heard from you in this realm and it sounded well thought out and was well put.
I hope your friends over there return safely.
I am regretting a comment I made in passing about McCain as I am getting it from all sides on it. Best to keep our pretty little mouths shut unless we're in the private company of people we think will discuss it calmly & more importatnly (as you pointed out), be willing to listen. That's not to say I care to change anyone's mind; I just want someone to listen & not cram their opinions down my throat.
Anyway, very nicely said. It's so cool when hot chicks are smart.
I'd have to say I'm allowed to be biased. Why should I not ascribe to a particular paradigm? The problem lies when conflicting paradigms insist that they are the only paradigm.
John: I'm not sure of the comment made, but, yes, we do have to watch our pretty little mouths. People don't want to agree to disagree and people don't want to be nice about it. The inital reaction being to attack the thought and/or belief in which is not their own.
Daniel: I agree. Why shouldn't you ascribe to a particular paradigm? But in saying that the problem lies when conflicting paradigms insist that their's are the only is just an example of what being biased is.
bi·as ( P ) Pronunciation Key (bs)
n.
a) A preference or an inclination, especially one that inhibits impartial judgment.
b) An unfair act or policy stemming from prejudice.
c) A statistical sampling or testing error caused by systematically favoring some outcomes over others.
par·a·digm ( P ) Pronunciation Key (pr-dm, -dm)
n.
a) One that serves as a pattern or model.
b)A set of assumptions, concepts, values, and practices that constitutes a way of viewing reality for the community that shares them, especially in an intellectual discipline.
So, as I mentioned, people's belief's and values are of those of how we were raised; A paradigm. To be biased would be to think that your paradigm is the only. So you ascribe to your paradigm but you aren't biased towards others. Right?
This had better be worth dragging me out of bed to reply to.
Yep, you nailed it like a true smartass. ;-)
See I didnt need all that extra waffle that I cut out.
Back to bed now. Night all.
You realize you have forever altered our view of you?
Actually, if people were paying attention, this is not a surprising post, but merely one of your more eloquent assessments.
There is not much to add to it; now we have to work to spread the beauty contained in it beyond ourselves.
Wouldn't it be wonderful to participate in an exchange program with Iraqis (even the radicals) so they could witness our humanity and we theirs? So we each could see the universial struggle of sadness, pain, joy, elation. Share moments like a son wanting to take care of his mother?
That might be better than Club Med...
You should never use apostrophes again.
That is an AMAZING post Jenn.
I SALUTE YOU.
As for people offering their two cents when it wasnt asked for is pathetic.
I mean, youve seen the kak Ive gotten and I value your input there. I say, heed your own advice, the advice you gave me. If they dont like what you have to say, who cares? You'll never please everybody.
My thought go out to your family and friends based out there in Iraq. Im sure they will amke you proud and get home safely.
Once again, BRILLIANT post by a BRILLIANT person. Well done Jenn.
Eloquently written. I appreciate your thoughts and your sympathies towards others plights.
You truely are a "good" person.
good post, when are you gonna show us some skin?
Jenn, You Rock! I knew you had it in ya, I'm glad you finally let it out :o)
I don't really agree with ya on everything, but this post was so heartfelt, and so beautifully written, I don't want to screw it up!
Awww Jenn, you broke your taboo. Jenn when you're ready to return to our homeland of Cuba, let me know. Communism will keep us together or else! Viva La Fidel! However I did find it racist that you failed to express gratitude to the poor starving people of North Korea who are ripped off by their government of food and relief money given to them by the US. You're so hateful to Asians, you and Katie both. Oh I'm just playing Jenn and I'm glad you didn't really tell everyone you voted for Bush like you told me the other year. I think you made a wise decision. Bush is as honorable as they come and he's a great great man and leader (sarcasm overload, must reboot)
Okay...I'm back. I am no longer a Blog Neglector.
As far your post today, it was good to see you take your time with this one. (Are you still a gimp?)
As far as religion...well, look what it did for me!
)+(
UNLV's comment cracked me up.
Thanks for everyone's nice words. It's not a miracle! I promise. I just never have the time to actually think about what I want to write nor the time to do it. Sheesh.
Liv:I would really like to hear your views and what you don't agree with. It won't ruin it, silly.
Brock: I don't have a problem with any religion either, obviousy. And yes, radical's can be scary.
Everyone: Have I mentioned I HATE politics?
Mexi: You FIX it then! I don't have time to fix stuff. And I'm not a grammar whore like you.
OK, this is going to be a long one...
My only disagreement with you is on war.
Not necessarily the war in Iraq, because in all honesty, I no longer know where I stand on this one. There are too many variables involved with the Iraqi war, and so many changing reasons for it... I just don't know anymore. (Maybe I'm so conflicted about it because I'm old enough and mature enough to actually be able to see all the contradictions. I suspect that a lot of people felt the same way about the Vietnam war... I'd really love to hear their take here.)
But war, in general, is not always a bad thing. Think about it, it took war to win our freedom from England. We were able to free slaves because of a war. War saved millions of lives in Germany. I know it's hard to accept death when it seems that reasoning should be the answer, but some people just do not respond to reasoning.
To put it into perspective (and you can thank Jill for this one, she didn't mean it in this context, but what she said really opened my eyes): You would die for your family if you thought it meant saving them, or improving the quality of life for them, wouldn't you? I know I would. In a second! I would rather not, to be sure, but if that were the only option... I would not hesitate to die, or kill, to save them. That's what we dealing with when we fight "just" wars. (Again, I don't know if the Iraqi war is "just" or not, and I don't think we'll know the true origins of this war for years to come... Which causes me to lose a lot of respect for our leaders. But that aside...)
IF we are fighting to free the people in Iraq, then I support it. Wholeheartedly. But that's a big IF. I think a lot of people have been mislead into believing that we are forcing our lifestyle on someone else, but in my "IF" scenario, that's not the case. We're giving them the chance to live the way they want, and not the way someone else has forced them to live.
Think of it this way, if the military in this country suddenly decided they wanted to strip away our freedom, and started killing anyone who resisted, wouldn't you want some help from the military of another country?
Liv:Agreed.
Though, my problem with this war is as you said, is it "just?" In my opinion, it is not. Yes, if we are fighting to "free" the people in Iraq and that's what comes of it, then I'll probably feel differently when it happens, which, I did mention in my post; A long lived dream.
But, why Iraq? There are many countries where people need help. Did we pull Iraq's name out of a hat? I haven't heard or read anywhere that any one out there asked "us" for "help." And as I mentioned, I thought this war was a fight against terrorism, not to liberate other countries. It's just Bush's way of saying, "I have no fucking idea why we're there, so I'll just change it up a bit." I'm sure he has HIS reasons, but they probably aren't valid so he'll make something up as we go. Oh, and we can't forget that one time "we" were there because they had nuclear weapons that we didn't find.
I still feel like IF the reason was to liberate them, which is why we're there now, why invade them? Which, in my opinion is what we did.
And if we needed the help of another country, and WANTED it because we were being stripped of our freedoms then yes, I'd want the help of another country.
Like I mentioned, some are "happy" that we're there, some are not. And again, hopefully we can liberate them and make that our just reason for this war, since we're already there and all.
In the end, war can be just.
Oh, and I'm NOT being sarcastic towards you. I think you made VERY valid points. I tend to be an ass when talking about this stuff and don't know how to do otherwise. I just hope any of what I said didn't seem as though I was knocking anything that you said. You know I got nothing but love for you!
Have I mentioned I HATE politics?
Oh trust me, I hate politics too. (And it kills me that I feel that way. I don't think the founding fathers of this country would approve of what our "politics" have come to. We'll have to bring that up again in another post!)But you know, sometimes we just need an outlet for all of the crap that has been hammered into our heads. That's why I'm glad that there are those of us who can just talk about it without being kicked to the ground before we get two words out. I don't think you were being sarcastic or disrespectful in any sense. And I appreciate that :o)
That being said...
I'm still not convinced that the war in Iraq is unjust. But I'm not convinced that it's just, either. That's the thing. The little shit has changed his reasoning so many times, and each reason is a good one in and of itself, but the mix leads to an overall distrust for agenda... In short, I think Bush knows exactly what he's doing, he's just not going to tell us. So we're left with guessing.
OK, I think we're pretty much in agreement about the confusion as to why this war has even taken place (otherwise, we wouldn't be using the "IF" scenarios.) We just landed on opposite sides in the view of the aftermath.
I hear what you're saying about how they didn't ask for our help, but if I put myself in a similar situation... If I'm getting the crap beat out of me on the street, I'm hoping that someone will come to my aid, even though I may be unable to ask for that help.
As for the other countries that need help? We are helping a lot of other countries, in a lot of different ways (although in some cases, they've had to Beg for help.) It's just being over shadowed by the controversy of this war.
Liv: Nicely put. I do believe we feel the same but different. If that makes sense.
It's enough to drive ya absolutely insane, Linny!
Jenn, I'm sorry. I honestly didn't mean to drive this conversation into the ground. It's just... Well... I have people over there too (as I'm sure we all do.) I guess I'm just looking for good solid reasons for them risking their lives.
Maybe Linny's right and only time will tell. But I got to say, this is about the hardest wait I've ever had to endure.
Wow, Jenn. I'm impressed with your writings. I hate it when someone assumes what I believe. Like when I criticize a Democrat, people assume I'm a Republican, and vice versa. I'm neither. I see why you got pissed when they made that assumption about you.
"Liberal's will never see the way of conservative's and conservative's will never see the way of liberal's."
The way I look at it is that tho the ideology of the two will never agree the people can when it comes to real deal issues. To restrict yourself in the thought process of one path is to limit the solutions at the ready. It becomes a "my guy" debate instead of finding common ground or actually looking at issues. This last election was a sham on both ends, neither side communicated real deal issues per the norm. Tho I agree at the core of what you say I cannot totally believe it bcuz I fight for common ground with my friends that are either or. I myself, am an Independent.
"I don't believe that this war has any sole purpose."
Unfortunately not in most historical senses of the meaning of war. Now, the purpose of the war ebbs and flows, flexes and bends with time. Everything is fucked right now and unfortunately with our fuck up we gotta do some right. That's my position. I think we are doing what's right, now anyway, but I think what got us there was intelligence branches from a multitude of countries being down right wrong. So can right be done from wrong? I hope so.
"I hate the electoral college and everything it stands for."
Its not perfect but its also brilliant for when it was made. Population booms in metropolitan areas have caused variables unforseen by the framers of the system. What we have now is Presidents acting like they are running for Governor in the final 5 swing states. Without the electoral college we would have Presidents acting like they are running for Governor in NY, Cali, Texas, Florida.. all the high population states. The point of the electoral college is so that all lifestyles, backgrounds and needs are heard though not as perfect as it could be but far more perfect for when it was created. Of the two choices, I side with the electoral college.
"I hope that in the future all of this death pay's off. Death paying off? How logical."
Deaths do pay off. They are paid off everyday all over the world when someone sacrifices themself for someone else. When a starving parent feeds their child instead of eating themselves so that they can have a life, when a cop is killed trying to make the city a safer place and when a soldier dies while defending a nation. Deaths pay off and whether or not our deaths pay off here, in Iraq, it is too early to know. The negative conotations that can be wrought from the word "war" are in themselves biased against a certain faction of the populace. To delve deeper is to seek that understanding in where causing death and reaping it upon one's self can be both righteous and for good. History has proved this time and time again just as it has disproved it.
"A tragedy is a tragedy. A life taken by the hands of another is not something I see better in any way."
This makes me shudder. I think that as a blanket statement the warm and fuzzies are passed around but turn it on its ear and perhaps the outcome is served far differently. Someone that shoves hundreds human beings into an oven for the sake of incomprehensible hatred versus someone who takes the lives of a gang of hostage takers can, indeed, be seen as "better." A lack of judgement and discernment is what can cause a break down in societal behavior. Wherein a child of 12 can have sex with a 40 year old man as he can with a 40 year old woman. Even if the 12 year old consents is that not different? There is no template or mold to what we see or experience and no mold should ever be made to fit over something that differs from the last.
**
Anyway, I am just a troll crossing over from HMTs blog (Mind Fists) following a link. Just thought I'd snip and comment on a few points I wanted to challenge or expound upon. Great post tho, made the last part of the work day pass. Take it easy.
Wow...this went in alot of different directions, eh? Alot to read...
)+(
First off, I'm impressed with the fact that this is your longest and most complete post. Thank you for sharing that with us.
I'm not for war. But, I do think defending Iraq against foreign terrorists (insurgents) and helping them rebuild their current new government is important. The vacuum created there and those we disappoint by leaving would only leave the lasting impression that America doesn't finish what it starts... an impression that still lingers from Vietnam.
Hindsight will be 20/20 on our reasons for going in. I think the "cheaper oil" excuse is purely being lazy. The "Haliburton needs money" excuse is fantastic. Whether it is the pre-Bush foreign policy on Iraq for the removal of Sadam instead of containment, intelligence (hard to call it that with previous cutbacks) that there were WMDs or that some al-Qaeda were based there... it is done.
The hunt for Osama will continue. I just don't see us waging war with every neighboring country that we feel may be harboring him. I just feel badly for those that are getting caught in the crossfire. I find it repulsive when when children are brought into a hide out to either give the troops a reason to reconsider storming a bunker or to create media furvor.
I can babble immensely on this topic but overall I just want to see an end to this conflict. But not for my own happiness but for that of those abroad as well.
Liv: You didn't drive it to the ground. You just spiced it up a bit!
Northe: Thanks for your insight. You make some very interesting points and give me much to think about. As did the others. The only thing I'm still adament about is the electoral college. I guess I felt it this year when my state was one of the last left waiting to be accounted for; When it didn't even matter what my states vote was. What mattered was one of those high population areas. I guess it just made me feel like my vote was shot to hell.
As for "deaths paying off." I know I followed that by "how logical." But, I understand death has and can pay off. I'm just hoping that the deaths in Iraq do. I use the term "how logical" loosely. It's just a statement that always sounds ghastly to me.
I also said that a life taken by the hands of another is not something I see better in any way. I'd have to side with your outlook on this. I do hope that the deaths from this do pay off. (There's that ghastly feeling again.)
"So can right be done from wrong?" Well, I could have saved all my time in typing this post had those seven words came in to play. Those are my exact feelings on this war.
I do feel that we need to finish what we started. I do feel that why we went in the first place had not concrete reasoning behind it; It was wrong. But, I hope that good comes out of it.
I guess only the future will tell.
Martin: I hear you! We can ALL babble on this topic 'til no end. That's one of the reason's I stay in my little corner most of the time when it comes to it.
jenn..karl rove is the Prez's right hand man..one of his closest advisors..
he also "outed" for lack of a better word a CIA operative to the press,thus endangering her. He hated her husband a democrat..he did it maliciously and has now been found out. The Prez orginailly said he would fire and/or prosicute whoever did this horrible thing..now that he finds out its his best bud, he is backpeddaling..just wanted to let you know after you posted you didnt know who he was on my blog..love ya girl :)
politics are not always political in nature..there are office politics, group politics and family politics..so you deal with "politics" probably daily in some form or fashion dear friend..
btw..your very welcome :) i can appreciate your hatred of politics..its an accquired taste i am afraid..and one you will never have..which is a good thing..you will always see both sides to a debate or arguement, unlike moi who always takes sides..i wish i could be more like you sweetness :)
Thanks for the response Jenn. You never know what kinda hell you can catch posting your opinion over the internet ;)
I definitely hear ya with the electoral college but regardless that same high populated area would quash whatever smaller cities surrounded em voted. On the reality scale one vote doesn't do much of anything but if everyone values their one vote that's when extraordinary things can take shape. Electoral college or not ;)
I am glad to have offered you some insight and respect you for actually responding to what I wrote. Whether this war is just or not, as you said, "I hope that good comes out of it."
I have had eight friends go over there and so far six have come back okay. Another is due to ship out in the next 6 months. I know how you're feeling and being the son of an Air Force captain I know that their sacrifices should be respected. I look forward to their safe return and I look forward to you welcoming those that you know back from Iraq one day in the future on your blog.
Anyway, I'll let back to what you actually enjoy writing about ;)
man, this was a great exercise!
Northe- You raise some great points in a very respectful manner. I look forward to seing your blog/thoughts.
Jen - I know how you feel about the outcome being decided before you had cast your vote. My first vote was for JCarter in 1980. Reagan had already been declared the victor as I went in to vote.
Most elections have more than one race or referendum on them however. Local politics is where your vote can really make the biggest difference as well as the beiggest influence on your life. Being a govermental employee (aren't you?), bond elections and tax questions should be pretty important to you.
The city I live in has a population of 116,000.
There are 58,000 registered voters.
In June, the winner in a city council race had 1,518 votes. The loser had 462.
462
You have more people than that read your blog!!!
If we don't vote, we are letting 463 people decide our lives.
You know I love you, right?
of course, i'm late, but i have an excuse: i was in a third world country!!!
what time and effort you put into this post. it's so refreshing to read commonthink (i just made that word up)
there are two sides to every coin, and it's a true gift to have the vision to see both.
everyone, no matter who they are, is someone's child. and his or her death is no less tragic to their parents than ours would be to our parents.
we must continue to vote.
your opinion counts.
we all bleed blood (profound, i know...)
beautiful intelligent women exist...thanks for showing up
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